"Session Start: "Fri Feb 20 20:17:06 2004 [20:17] *** Topic is 'Welcome to the Game of Democracy IV: Next Turn Chat is Feb 21 02:30 GMT = Feb 20 20:30 CST ' [20:17] *** Topic set by zorven on Tuesday Feb 17 08:36 pm (U8:36 PM2/17/2004 8:36:51 PM) [20:17] *** Statistics: 5 Voiced, 2 Users (Total: 7) [20:17] Mr. President. [20:17] Hi GA [20:17] hi [20:18] Hi CT [20:18] hi all [20:18] Hi Peri [20:18] CG, are you here? [20:18] Yes [20:19] *** CivGeneral does a compleate Spyware memoval [20:19] :o [20:19] Did Plexus PM you or post in the forums his authorization for you to post instructions? [20:19] Zorven - he told me via ICQ [20:19] This will turn into an investigation for the authority of post instructions :crazyeyes: [20:19] I believe he needs to post publicly, otherwise it is not official [20:20] It is offical [20:20] Let me get the logs [20:20] Official, bah, IMO ;) [20:21] Zorven - It is offical [20:21] Zorven - since he told me via ICQ [20:21] Here is the log and proof [20:21] Plexus: hey CG, mind doing queues for me? [20:21] CivGeneral: k [20:21] Plexus: I just don't have the time [20:21] Plexus: thanks a ton [20:22] hi pindicator [20:22] CG, it doesn't matter, as he didn't post within 24 hours, so you have authorization according to CoS [20:22] Darn it, zorven, I was about to say that! [20:22] ha! [20:22] So my instructions are valid? [20:22] yes [20:23] No CC here, nothing to see, keep moving along [20:23] Ok, then what was the legal mumbo-jumbo earlyer :p [20:23] Thank god [20:23] My point is, only orders posted in the forum should be official. [20:23] You almost made me get another new pair of pants :p [20:23] :) [20:23] lol [20:23] The deputy for a position is always authorized to post instructions if the leader has not done so within 24 hours of the chat [20:23] It's like court in here ;) [20:23] Dont do that Zorven, you almost made me parinoid [20:23] if you get 3 CCs CG you win a toaster [20:23] Now lets move along [20:23] GA- you've got 2/3 of the Judiciary present ... [20:24] Err... [20:24] You and Peri? [20:24] Peri - I will make you wear Mara Jade's suit if you say CC again :p [20:24] ok, I am doing build queues. Any suggestions for cities in Audiac or IA? [20:24] I'm not up to date ;) [20:24] yup [20:24] ok [20:24] that sounds incedibly kinky CG [20:24] o_O [20:24] Ok, lets move along,nothing to see here O_O [20:25] hello [20:25] *** Ravensfire_Away is now known as Ravensfire_Stomping_On_Egypt [20:25] :eek: Ravensfire, playing civ, or no? [20:25] Yup:) [20:25] :eek: I think he is, but in a different game [20:26] Oh yeah - Cav's vs Pikes [20:26] heh heh heh [20:26] haha [20:26] Stop stepping on Cleo, I was about to ask her out :p [20:26] Turnchat starts in 5 minutes [20:26] :) [20:27] CG - but she's not a red-head. :p [20:27] and she is dead too [20:27] CG - she's running for her miserable little life right now! [20:27] CT - I can get some hair dye and dye Cleo's hair Red :p [20:27] And I never knew you were a warmonger Ravensfire... :p [20:28] When I've got the tech and the numbers, I sometimes feel the need to have breathing room. [20:28] brb [20:30] The Turn Chat has officially started. [20:30] I am almost done with build queues. I am trying to decide the last few cities [20:30] are we prpducing settlers in quatity? [20:30] producing [20:31] quatity? Is that a new word? ;) [20:31] Quality and Quantity? [20:31] heee [20:31] like fassle [20:31] YAY! [20:31] fuss and hassle [20:31] yes, the demogame IS a fassle. :p [20:31] one in DR being built now, Vandelay has one in queue [20:31] that's it [20:31] lots of workers thought [20:31] though [20:31] finally! [20:34] ok, done with queues [20:34] moving military..... [20:34] ok [20:37] t'was brillig [20:38] Any update? [20:38] military moves done [20:39] ok [20:39] we have a settler on the way to site Orange [20:39] onto T&T [20:40] this is all very quiet. Where is the OT chatter? [20:42] ok, I can't do either of the T&T trades listed by Octavian X [20:42] brb [20:42] hehe [20:43] Why? [20:44] Just curious... [20:44] ok [20:46] back [20:46] wb :) [20:47] ok [20:47] *** CT_Away is now known as Chieftess [20:47] there [20:48] in negotiation, if our advisor says it is doubtful the deal will be accepted, could it be accepted? [20:48] i don't think so [20:48] unlikely [20:48] however... [20:48] you might be albe to adjust things slightly [20:49] that's the problem. I have specific instructions that don't work! [20:49] i.e., if they won't accept 50g for HBR, try 55g. [20:49] or, try 100, then 75, then either 60 or 85, depending on what it is [20:49] And that's one of the problems I have with this ruleset! [20:49] It doesn't allow for those changes!!!! [20:49] I can't do a deal that is not specified, but the deal specified doesn't work [20:50] how far off is the gold amount to what would be accepted? [20:50] so do the deal you can do and live with the consequences [20:50] This problem is only going to become worse later in the game. [20:50] Such as getting impeached :P [20:50] But, the people wanted that trade (supposedly) [20:50] What trades did you make so far? [20:51] what is the worst that could happen - you would have to say sorry [20:51] no trades so far. [20:51] you said something changed [20:51] I was supposed to renogiatiate peace with russia [20:51] uh oh... [20:51] you're in a pickle now... [20:52] Reject, and they declare war. [20:52] deal 9 was given by Octavian X, but the senate didn't approve cash, so he then specified deal 7, but deal 7 doesn't work [20:52] Should we *gasp* stop the turnchat? =/ [20:52] Find a better deal, and you're CC'd. [20:52] I am going with the second place tie in the poll, deal 1 [20:52] take the deal [20:52] yea [20:52] If anyone needs me Page me with (CG), Im going to play C3C [20:52] Or, you could just leave Civ3 open for a few days. :p [20:52] *** CivGeneral is now known as CG_Away [20:52] *** CG_Away is away: Civving away [20:53] You are in a cucumber ;) [20:53] What did we do before the trade deal? [20:53] When I was the DP many demogames ago, trades were the #1 thing I did after build queues. [20:53] I did build queues and military moves\ [20:53] wouldnt it be terrible if you had a powercut and had to reload the game [20:54] haha [20:54] heck with it. I am doing deal number 1 from the poll. [20:54] ok [20:54] not likely to get a powercut soon then zorven? [20:55] not with my UPS [20:55] unless I accidently kicked the cord.... [20:55] oh god i hope that doesnt happen [20:55] Back on topic... ;) [20:56] *** CG_Away is now known as CivGeneral [20:56] *** CivGeneral is back after 3m: Civving away [20:56] *** CivGeneral is now known as CG_C3C [20:56] I have 2 choices, a straight peace deal, or follow the winner of the poll (will of the people) [20:57] Well, Oct's deal 7 and 9 seem to work when I tried the peace renegotiation. [20:58] Are you sure you entered the right items? [20:58] really? [20:58] I didn't try 9 as the senate did not approve the cash [20:58] yep [20:58] Both 7 and 9 worked [20:58] would the movements have affected things? [20:59] let me double check..... [20:59] Sometimes, but I thought that was during the IBTs... [20:59] *** BlueStrider has Returned (Been gone 2hrs 7mins 26secs) [20:59] *** zorven can be blind sometimes... [21:00] I think I had Russia giving their world map too [21:00] oops [21:00] lol [21:00] war averted [21:00] haha [21:00] hurray! [21:00] Now, why would we trade our world map to russia and not with everyone else? that does not make any sense [21:01] hmm, you know.. Wouldn't the senate's rejection of deal 9 be illegal since I don't see any instructions from them? :) [21:01] they didn't reject it, nobody voted in the poll [21:02] anyway, doing the deal.... [21:03] i agree with the map trading issue... which is why i didn't vote for it [21:04] haha, what i said didn't make any sense [21:04] What poll? [21:04] I have to go now... [21:04] cya next time Ginger? [21:04] CT - poll meaning the senate vote [21:04] bye [21:04] Yup, I'll be here! :) [21:04] Bye all [21:04] bye [21:05] anybody know if the next tech to research was discussed anywhere? [21:05] Then, what good is the senate if they don't vote in their own polls? [21:05] haha, good point [21:05] normally the VP would vote as a tie breaker, but he was having computer trouble today [21:05] they are no bloody good then [21:05] Then I'm sorry I even mentioned the senate in DG1. :p [21:07] anybody know if the next tech to research was discussed anywhere? [21:07] Sorry i don't. [21:07] somebody listed options, but i don't remember anyone voting [21:08] your choice then zorven [21:08] suggestions? [21:08] what are the choices? [21:08] construction, philosophy, or polytheism [21:09] here is the table: [21:09] http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=76128&pagenumber=2 [21:09] none of the other civs have any of those for trade [21:09] what about poly? [21:10] What techs do the other AI have? [21:10] or don't have [21:10] Go for something that the AI doesn't value as highly [21:10] CT, such as? [21:10] what would that be? [21:10] Philo has nothing, is it isn't valued much... [21:10] CoL has an improvement [21:10] So, it's valued a bit more for the AI to research [21:11] we now have CoL [21:11] Poly also has nothing [21:11] so you say either poly or philo? [21:11] I'd go with Philo [21:12] that is what I am going with because we can discover it this turn chat [21:12] philo [21:12] philo is good then [21:13] ok, done with pre-turn (so soon you say?) [21:13] hang on, I'm gonna try switching servers. [21:13] lol [21:13] End of Preturn, 550 BC [21:13] with any luck we should be finished by tomorrow [21:13] Science 90 Tax 10 [21:14] lol [21:14] Treasury 270 +0 gpt [21:14] Philosophy due in 7 [21:14] great [21:14] woohoo! :D [21:14] lol [21:14] it would go faster if we had ministers and governors that actually posted instructions [21:14] And Cyc thought these would would make them post instructions. [21:15] saving and uploading [21:15] He's been around as LONG as I have... [21:15] Even I knew that wouldn't happen. [21:15] other than beating them over the head what can you do? [21:15] let's stick with the beating; i like that [21:15] http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/DG4_BC550_Preturn.sav [21:15] Another CC to bog the system down? [21:16] well sarevok has been a total success [21:16] how about: don't vote for them again! what a novel idea! [21:16] I agree about sarevok. boots has been good too. [21:16] but sarevok is brand new [21:17] Doubt that'll happen if half the lurkers don't even bother to know that governors and other leaders ARE supposed to post instructions all the time.. [21:17] boots is always gfm [21:17] I bet you that half the lurkers that vote just want to see the game progress. [21:17] hehe [21:18] does anybody want me to wait any longer? [21:18] no, go on. :) [21:18] Well, I always post my instructions [21:18] Yes [21:18] It's like that in succession games (and the demogame had a strong SG following at the start, but tapered off). [21:18] please do hit the shiny marble button [21:18] CT - what happened? [21:18] lurkers sometimes post to say that they're following the game. [21:18] hitting the button [21:18] A couple post suggestions [21:19] CT - So it started as a SG and then slowly it went to what it is today? [21:19] impressive [21:19] Well, it started as a game of democracy, but it just so happened that a lot of SG players started. [21:19] like Charis [21:19] *** CG_C3C sits down and listens to CT's story [21:20] Now, the demogame is its' own little group that rarely ventures outside (most of it anyway) [21:20] IBT: Russians are building Great Library [21:20] hahaha [21:20] not strictly true [21:20] Babs are building Pyramids [21:20] hmm [21:20] CT - Umm, I venture outside the DG, I also post in OT and C&C [21:21] our warrior in the Northern Desert defeats an attacking barb horseman [21:21] there have been lots of new additions to the dg [21:21] i saw the sun today! it was shiny -- oh, you mean outside the DG... [21:21] babs in our core area move around [21:21] Now Turn 1 [21:21] moving units.... [21:22] k [21:22] Whip them to shape Zorven ;) [21:23] whipping.... [21:23] ok moves done [21:23] our horsie is protecting our workers south of DR, the bab warrior is next to them [21:23] other than that, nothing to note [21:23] Attack it? [21:24] 2 vs 1 defense [21:24] Deputy Govenor's Instructions: The DP must say something honorable ;) [21:24] too right [21:24] CT - bab warrior (Babylonian) [21:24] oh, ok [21:24] End of Turn 1, 530 BC [21:24] Thought you said barb [21:24] Science 100 [21:25] Treasury 270 -2 gpt [21:25] Philo due in 5 [21:25] hitting enter in 10 [21:25] i did too [21:25] "enter" [21:27] IBT: Groton: Warrior (vet) -> Warrior [21:27] Now Turn 2 [21:27] moving units.. [21:30] hi 40J [21:30] greetings. [21:30] this is what I call good timing :) [21:30] what? [21:31] sarcasm runs rampant [21:31] lol [21:31] moves done [21:31] what did I miss? [21:31] Russia has dyes around st petersburg [21:31] only 2 turns [21:31] ah [21:31] Zorven nearly started a war. ;) [21:31] not too late after all [21:32] our new warrior in groton is moving to scout east of sanction [21:32] He had "World Map" in the wrong place [21:32] probably gave it instead of received it [21:32] *** zorven mmmm, war [21:32] Speaking of war, I'm playing an AW SG as another pink civ. [21:33] aw? [21:33] End of Turn 2, 510 BC [21:33] Science 100 [21:33] Always War [21:33] Treasury 268 -2 gpt [21:33] Philo due in 4 [21:33] ahhh [21:33] hitting enter in 10 [21:33] Hows it going? [21:33] That could be good for the demogame... on Warlord level. :p [21:34] hmm, philo went down by a turn [21:34] This demogame isn't going as well as previous ones? [21:34] n/m [21:34] no wait, it did [21:34] I guess someone else must've researched it, or we grew just enough [21:34] In terms of moving along? No. [21:35] are we ready to go? [21:35] yes [21:35] sure [21:35] "enter" [21:36] CT, you speak Japanese don't you? [21:36] yes [21:36] IBT: [21:36] How do you know when to use the ON or the KUN reading? [21:36] Sanction: Worker -> Settler (placeholder) [21:37] I have just started trying to teach myself [21:37] Babylonians building Great Library [21:37] That's kind of something you just learn.. :) [21:37] Now Turn 3 [21:37] ahhh [21:37] I never really taught myself a pattern, just something I picked up. [21:37] No fixed rule then? [21:37] I think that's one part of Japanese that doesn't have a set rule. [21:37] IBT the Babs moved the warrior near huntington south [21:37] No. I meant I am teaching myself the language [21:38] Usually, it's the same type reading for each kanji if it's combined. [21:38] and the other Bab warrior in our territory appears to be moving towards the Northern Desert [21:38] moving units... [21:38] Ive noticed that like ichigatsu [21:38] you think the babylonians know of a barb camp? or just scouting around? [21:39] and nihon [21:39] They might [21:39] and chugoku [21:39] if i have spelt that right lol [21:39] Actually, Chuugoku [21:39] nothing special to report [21:39] ty [21:39] I'm picky on romaji. ;) [21:39] End of Turn 3, 490 BC [21:39] Science 100 [21:39] good for you [21:39] Treasury 266 - 2 gpt [21:39] :) [21:39] Mainly since, a word like, "tooi" isn't "toui" in hiragana. [21:39] Philo due in 3 [21:40] hitting enter soon [21:40] not soon enough ;) [21:40] But, tokyo (or tookyoo) is (toukyou) [21:40] where's the sgt at arms in here? [21:40] BTW, did you read my post on how to teach yourself a language? [21:40] It's in the OT forum. [21:40] is it to o i then? [21:40] yes [21:41] "enter" [21:41] that's one of the exceptions. [21:41] no i didn't [21:41] where would i find it? [21:41] Lemme search [21:41] OT forum [21:41] There was a thread, something like, "How do I teach myself a language" (Spanish in that case) [21:41] Did you teach yourself nihongo or did you learn it formally? [21:41] both [21:41] Thanks [21:41] hmm, Let's take this to #demogame :) [21:42] we're clogging up the turnchat. [21:42] sorry [21:43] hehe [21:44] IBT: Mont: Worker -> Worker [21:44] Hunt: Worker -> Worker [21:44] Now Turn 4 [21:44] Huntington's making workers? [21:45] Phoenician Barb camp 1 tile north of site Orange. It is occupied by one warrior and one horse [21:45] you've got to be kidding me!?! [21:45] I kid not [21:45] no instructions posted? [21:45] *** Chieftess likes workers. Especially when you only have 3. ;) [21:45] and one of them is foriegn. [21:45] yes, CivGeneral posted instructions [21:45] how protected is the settler heading to orange? [21:45] one warrior protecting the settler [21:45] I like workers too, but when we waste two turns production because the worker is done too early, I'd rather have a warrior [21:46] I am thinking about not moving the settler with the warrior and see if the warrior can get rid fo the barbs [21:46] as Mayor of Huntington, I'd like to officially request that you change the build queue for our fair community to a galley [21:46]