"Session Start: "Tue Feb 10 13:50:45 2004 [13:50] *** Topic is 'Welcome to the Game of Democracy IV: Next Turn Chat February 10 20:00 GMT = Feb 10 14:00 CST' [13:50] *** Topic set by zorven on Saturday Feb 07 09:41 pm (U9:41 PM2/7/2004 9:41:19 PM) [13:50] *** Statistics: 5 Voiced, 3 Users (Total: 8) [13:50] howdy all [13:50] Hola [13:51] yes tm90 [13:51] hey Mr. President [13:53] *** zorven is setting build queues [13:53] Zorven, who is playing the TC on Feb 16? [13:56] Good question. I hadn't publicly said anything, but I won't be availble for the TC on the 16th. So the next available in the CoC will be playing it. [13:57] hi Furiey [13:57] hi everyone [13:57] hi boots [13:57] hi Boots [13:58] hi zorven [13:59] *** zorven is sending diplomats to oversee contstruction of embassies. Photos to follow. [13:59] ok [14:00] *** CT_Away is away: auto-away after 30m idle [14:00] Turn Chat has official started. I am currently building embassies. Build queues and movement are done. [14:05] Mr. President, may I ask for a screenshot of the "Best of" lists that pop up? Such as "The most Avanced" or "The Happiest". [14:05] I need these for the Screenshots thread. :) [14:06] I will when they come up. [14:06] ty [14:06] *** CT_Away is now known as Chieftess [14:06] ok [14:06] *** Chieftess is back after 6m: auto-away after 30m idle [14:07] Almost forgot about the chat. :) [14:07] embassy pics.... [14:07] http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/DG4_BC1300_Moscow.jpg [14:07] http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/DG4_BC1300_Delhi.jpg [14:07] http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/DG4_BC1300_Babylon.jpg [14:07] Lovely territory the Russians have .:) [14:08] And I fear the Babylonians. [14:08] End of Turn 0, 1300 BC [14:08] Science 100 [14:08] Treasury 257 +0 gpt [14:08] Currency due in 24 [14:08] saving and uploading.... [14:09] Boots, are you going to post the embassy shots in yhe FA Dept. thread? [14:10] http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/DG4_BC1300_preturn.sav [14:10] yeah [14:10] saving [14:10] loading [14:10] And I'm *STILL* used to having a modem. :p [14:10] I love my cable modem.... [14:10] Be wary of that barb horsie... [14:11] which one? [14:11] by our core [14:11] *** Chieftess has been reading up on RCP... [14:11] just a side note. :) [14:11] near vandelay? I suppose he will attack our spear in vandelay [14:11] yeah [14:11] Hopefully he doesn't go for the workers. [14:12] he won't get them [14:12] hehe, look at Minsk! Hills, mountains and jungle! :) [14:12] ok, unless there are objections, I am hitting enter... [14:12] Russia's not going anywhere too fast [14:12] Proceed [14:12] k [14:12] "enter" [14:13] http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1584541#post1584541 [14:13] embassy pics posted [14:13] ty Boots [14:14] Let's hope Russia finishes that Collosus... Then we can take it at some point in the far future. :) [14:14] IBT [14:14] Barb kills our spear in Vandelay - kills citizens [14:14] :( [14:14] Barb kills our warrior in Mont - takes 51 gold [14:14] yay! [14:14] j/k [14:14] Provided the FP is near there... (I doubt there's a lot in the way of prime realestate in this world. [14:14] Montpellier? [14:14] yes [14:15] Now Turn 1 [14:15] In a normal game, I'd be having Vo Mimbre build a settler rather than a temple. :) But, this is the demogame... [14:15] oh well... [14:16] Those Ooligarians have been practicing the arts of war! [14:16] our warrior between russia and Babs enters remote village. makes friends and leaves with knowledge of "The Wheel" [14:16] cool [14:16] wow! [14:16] Screenshot time! [14:17] Do we have horses? [14:17] Oh what a holiday [14:17] we have horses 2 tiles NE of DR! [14:17] Yay!!! [14:17] something goes right! [14:17] TM90 - those Oligarians are looking for revenge? [14:17] Be they horses or camels? :) [14:18] Zorven - which tribe gave us The Wheel? [14:18] about time we found those horses... [14:18] they've been running around on our doorstep all this time..... [14:18] yup [14:18] Yes, they have from the very start [14:19] They must be wearing "Blinders". lol [14:20] Chieftess - Seljulc - and I am logging that type of info for my summary in case I don't type it here [14:20] Seljuk? [14:20] if I read my writing correctly ;) [14:20] it could be Seljuk [14:21] *** zorven is sometimes a sloppy writer [14:21] moves done [14:21] This will be good for the Boonta Eve Classic Camel & Horse race. :) [14:22] Mont and Vandelay remain undefended. next military unit due in 5 at mont (warrior) [14:22] End of Turn 1, 1275 BC [14:22] Science 100 [14:22] Treasury 206 +0 gpt [14:22] Currency due in 23 [14:22] enter in 10.. [14:23] enter [14:23] k [14:23] IBT - nothing [14:23] Now Turn 2 [14:23] We *REALLY* need a Sentry Net... [14:23] Just to clear out those barbs. [14:25] warrior attacks barb camp SW of russia, takes 2 damage and dispersed the camp - we find 25 gold [14:25] our workers road the horses [14:26] good [14:26] That's one less barb camp... for now. [14:26] moves done [14:27] End of Turn 2, 1250 BC [14:27] Science 100 [14:27] Treasury 231 +0 gpt [14:27] Currency due in 22 [14:27] hitting enter in 10 [14:28] enter [14:30] Anything happening? [14:30] IBT: DR Settler -> Warrior (4) [14:30] IBT: Palace expansion - some nice landscaping :) [14:30] Now Turn 3 [14:30] did we get the next city site? [14:30] not sure [14:31] There were no instructions from DaveShack [14:31] no Instructions from DaveShack [14:31] heheh [14:31] is there a concensus or poll in the forum? [14:31] Was there a proposed list? [14:32] checking forum.... [14:32] http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1580947#post1580947 [14:32] this poll is closed [14:32] 1A came out top of the dyes site, but that poll was not for city order [14:32] 1A [14:33] the results are for 1a [14:33] :) [14:33] Well, I hope those jungle sure are productive quick. :) [14:34] we should get a worker down there to road and clear some Jungle [14:34] like Furiey said, that poll was for placement of a future city, not necessarily for the next city site [14:34] "a" worker? We need more than 1. :) [14:34] so what city site do you have approved? [14:34] the discussion in the thread recently was towards the dyes [14:34] http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=e643c6ca6c14dea0a1d78dab0dcd4f19&threadid=75991&pagenumber=3 [14:34] what "other" city site has been polled? [14:35] I believe we should use the POLLED city site [14:36] Jungle = 5 turns to road (1 worker) [14:36] none that I've seen recently, discussion in the city placement thread supported the dyes from what I can see [14:36] 12 turns to clear (1 worker) [14:36] We'll need atleast 3 if we want it done quickly (4 turns). [14:36] 4 for 3 turns. [14:36] 6 workers for 2 turns. [14:37] cyc, which poll? [14:37] we need to use poll option 1A, as it passed in this poll: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=78128 [14:37] the one I linked to above, zorven [14:38] that is fine with me. I will send the settler to tile 1a in that poll, and some workers to clear jungle, and one conscript warrior to make them all feel good [14:39] good move. TY Mr. President. :) [14:41] moves done, nothing interesting to report [14:41] End of Turn 3, 1225 BC [14:41] Science 100 [14:42] Treasury 231 +0 gpt [14:42] Currency due in 24 [14:42] hitting enter in 10 [14:42] currency was due in 23 last turn... [14:42] we build a settler in DR [14:42] and 22 before that I think [14:42] 22, right\ [14:43] *built [14:43] settler would do it though [14:43] Remember, I think one city lost population to barbarians. [14:43] k, ty [14:43] "enter" [14:43] That -does- affect research. :) [14:43] Less gold. [14:43] IBT: nothing [14:43] Now Turn 4 [14:44] at least a couple of turns rest from the Barbs [14:45] I'm worried about Montpellier. [14:45] did we get a replacement garrison? [14:46] don't think so - our military is being killed faster than we can build it [14:46] replacement warrior due in Mont in 2 turns (produced in Mont) [14:46] Turn 4 moves done [14:46] those darn Barbs want our wine. ;) [14:47] they took 51 gold worth in their last visit ! [14:47] End of Turn 4 [14:47] Science 100 [14:47] greedy Barbs [14:47] Treasury 231 +0 gpt [14:47] Currency due in 23 [14:47] hitting enter in 10 [14:47] I think it's a sign that we indulge ourselves in wines too much. ;) [14:48] not now.:0 [14:48] they took too much [14:48] hitting enter [14:49] IBT: Nothing [14:49] Now Turn 5 [14:49] k [14:49] I noticed there's a lot of wine about - India and Babylon have it too [14:50] this must be the wino map. :) [14:50] lol! [14:51] moves done [14:51] T5UL? (turn 5 upload) [14:52] Remember DG1? England had ALL the wines... [14:52] Japan had all the spices in DG3 (until we sacked Edo and built our own city in its place) [14:53] hehe [14:53] I forget the resources in DG2, except for Gem Mountain [14:53] I think Babylon and Russia had their share of wines. [14:53] yeah [14:53] End of Turn 5 [14:54] Science 100 [14:54] Treasury 231 +0 gpt [14:54] Currency due in 22 [14:54] saving and uploading.... [14:54] ok [14:55] http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/DG4_BC1175.sav [14:55] *** Bootstoots is now known as Boots_afk [14:55] bbl [14:56] k [14:56] loading [14:56] Micromanage DR [14:56] It's wasting 3 food. [14:56] and only needs 2 [14:57] Move the floodplain tile to 1 S of DR. [14:57] Growth in 1, and warrior in 1 [14:57] I was unsure of my authority to Micromanage [14:57] Vandelay could have a floodplain tile moved to the plains for the settler in 6. [14:59] I'm not sure either, but it's not changing anything. You're still growing in 1 turn, and getting the warrior 1 turn sooner. [14:59] looking at the histogram it looks like Babylon's culture has just blipped [14:59] you might be going against the Governor's wishes [15:00] That's the concern I have. What if the governor doesn't know how to effectively micromanage his cities? It's not something the average citizen would know, or bother to read about looking at the chatlog... [15:00] but what if he does? [15:01] When I'm a Gov, I handle these things [15:01] traditionally the DP left the laborers along unless the Gov specified otherwise, IIRC [15:01] the Prez shouldn't be able to change them [15:01] *alone [15:02] I'm also the mayor of DR, too... [15:02] good, zorven. that's what the three books say [15:02] but you only make suggestions to the Cov, CT. [15:02] I will, however, place new growth laborers [15:03] Also, as military deputy, I'd like the warrior done a turn sooner, which I'd need to talk to Sarevok and the governor about... [15:03] :) that's why we have forums. [15:03] Well, DR was building a settler during turn 1. [15:03] rather, the preturn [15:04] There was really no way of knowing what it would do on turn 1 when the settler was built. [15:04] That's the little micromanagement issues I'm talking about. [15:04] The only way to tell (besides trying to calculate) is to play 1 turn. (even if it's a scenario) [15:05] that's why I used to post Instructions like "place laborers for growth, or production." [15:05] rather, it was done in 4 turns, but the extra production on turn 1 shortened that time. [15:05] That's you, but it's not everyone. [15:05] Not everyone is going to be a perfect governor. [15:06] well it could be [15:06] my Foreign Advisor has just said "France will always triumph because India is dumb" [15:06] haha [15:06] I guess we chalk it up to the inefficiencies of government, and a lesson on how to write better instructions. Without Plexus here to clarify his intent, I am not going to mm. [15:06] What I'm getting at is, there's a lot of redundant instructions that could very well be assumed. [15:07] Then you better make a thread on that. ;) [15:07] This would be a great forum topic. Moving on, unless there are objections, I am going to be hitting enter [15:07] k [15:07] Not to mention micromanaging of Vandelay, too... [15:08] Post those 2 cities in the forums. [15:08] ok, hitting enter...... [15:10] IBT: DR War -> War (2) [15:10] IBT: Mont War -> Spear (20) [15:10] hey Lance [15:11] IBT: Barb galley at south end of the Great Lake (south of VM) [15:11] Babylonian warrior moves next to Warrior SW of Russia [15:11] now Turn 6 [15:11] k [15:12] Yay!!! A barb on a lake! :D [15:12] It's gonna be there until the end of the game! (maybe) [15:12] probably [15:12] Just like DG1. [15:15] Has it started? [15:15] Yes =/ [15:15] hey GA [15:15] It's over? [15:15] nope [15:15] Ok, moves done [15:15] Haha...I'm always late... [15:15] ok [15:15] turn 6 [15:15] settler will reach destination next turn [15:15] watchin a movie? [15:15] hi GA [15:15] warrior stays in mont to attack barbs [15:15] no, hi Furiey :) [15:15] warrior from DR moving to Vandelay [15:16] Do we have lots of barbs? [15:16] that's it for moves [15:16] End of Turn 6 [15:16] warrior in Montpellier should fortify, no? [15:16] I thought it would be better odds to attack any barbs that show up [15:17] that's what you thought in Vandelay [15:17] were lost that one [15:17] better ODDS [15:17] I don't trust this bonus sytem [15:17] End of Turn 6, 1150 BC [15:17] Science 100 [15:17] Treasury 231 + 0 gpt [15:18] Currency due in 18 [15:18] hitting enter in 10 [15:18] enter [15:18] why are we supposed to be getting a bounus for attacking? I forgot the reasoning. [15:19] Cyc -- which do you trust more? The bonus system? RNG? or a tank vs. spear? [15:19] bt [15:19] *brb [15:19] a fortified warrior in a city is what i trust. [15:19] is there a reason not to fortify? [15:19] Chieftess, the spear? [15:20] ;) [15:20] there seems to be a thought we get a bonus when attacking Lance [15:20] I lost a modern armour attacking an unfortified cavalry last weekend :( [15:20] I believe we get a 100% bonus for attacking, while we get 50% (?) for fortifying [15:20] the barb horse attacks at 2 and defends at 1 [15:21] right [15:21] so we can attack at about 2 to 1 (our favor) or defend at 2 to 1.5 (barbs favor) [15:21] We need some war chariots to scout the land for barbs. [15:21] so it's 1 vs 1 as opposed to 2 vs 1.5 [15:21] big difference [15:22] *** Ginger_Ale is now known as GA[homework] [15:22] I'll be back [15:22] :) [15:22] When the barbs are moving, we can't attack anyway. So should'n it be fortified then? [15:22] cya [15:22] barbs can't get to our city during their turn [15:22] right, the horse attacks from two away [15:23] IBT: VM Temple -> Spear (5) [15:23] Russian warrior moving south from Groton area [15:23] Now Turn 6 [15:24] brb -- got forum issues in C&C... [15:25] moves done. settler in place to build next turn [15:26] warriors now in vandelay and mont [15:26] roading being done towards dye [15:27] End of Turn 6, 1125 BC [15:27] Science 100 [15:27] Treasury 231 -1 gpt [15:27] Currency due in 17 [15:27] hitting enter in 10 [15:27] there is a slight bonus we get from attacking from within a city, but I don't think it's 100%. [15:27] really, I don't think I have heard of that [15:28] well, where are you getting this 100% bonus from? [15:28] back [15:28] wb ;) [15:28] we get an attack bonus versus barbarians [15:28] It's in the editor. [15:28] the bonus gets less as you move up in diffuculty, it is 100% on monarch [15:29] hitting enter [15:31] *** Boots_afk is now known as Bootstoots [15:32] what is it on regent then? [15:33] not sure boots, I think 150% [15:33] IBT: DR Warrior -> Spear (4) [15:33] Now Turn 7 [15:33] Settler Builds "Huntington" on site 1A [15:34] set production to warrior (10) [15:34] i was thinking it might be 50% on monarch, but it doesn't really matter (the RNG gods will get us either way) ;) [15:34] 200% on regent I think [15:34] 400% on warload [15:34] 800% on chieftain [15:35] i remember it being 400% on chieftain, unless they changed that [15:35] remaining units moved [15:35] *** GA[homework] is now known as Ginger_Ale [15:36] End of Turn 7, 1100 BC [15:36] Science 90 Tax 10 [15:36] Treasury 230 +0 gpt [15:37] Currency due in 14 [15:37] hitting enter in 10 [15:37] enter [15:40] IBT: nothing [15:40] Now Turn 8 [15:41] units moved [15:41] ok [15:41] End of Turn 8, 1075 BC [15:41] Science 90 Tax 10 [15:41] Treasury 230 +0 gpt [15:41] Currency due in 13 [15:42] hitting enter in 10 [15:42] yeah, my editor shows 100% attack bonus on Monarch [15:42] I would still like the Warrior fortified. [15:42] "enter" [15:44] IBT: India settler pair moves north to area between India and Babylon [15:44] nothhing else IBT [15:44] Now Turn 9 [15:45] moves done [15:46] still can't find the barb camp north of vandelay [15:46] it's to the west of Vandelay [15:47] probably - that's where the horeseman was coming from at the beginning of this session [15:47] ok, I hit the 2 mountains outside our territory to the w and n of vandelay and saw nothing [15:47] End of Turn 9, 1050 BC [15:47] Science 90 Tax 10 [15:48] Treasury 230 +0 gpt [15:48] Currency due in 11 [15:48] hitting enter in 10 [15:48] There was one in the mountains. [15:48] on that gold [15:48] *** BlueStrider has Returned (Been gone 16hrs 10mins 43secs) [15:48] that was ne of mont [15:48] could be coming from there (which direction did it come from?) [15:49] I am talking n, nw of vandelay [15:49] "enter" [15:51] IBT: India doesn't like our troops in the Bangalore area, I apologize and assure him we will move our troops. [15:51] VM Spear -> War (2) [15:51] k [15:51] VM influence expands [15:51] Now Turn 10 [15:51] Don't move warriors next to a city. That way, you get more time to explore. [15:52] The area around an AI city is like their 'danger zone' [15:54] I don't follow Chieftess [15:54] oh nevermind [15:54] she means AI cities [15:54] units moved, some left with movement for pre-turn of next chat [15:55]