Session Start: Sun Oct 13 01:26:42 2002 Session Ident: #demogame *** Now talking in #demogame *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Eklektikos Also we get 20g out of it ;) Any success Elkektikos with CivIII? we can get writing and horseback riding without paying gold. Please look at the trades I just posted I'm about to find out... Donsig: I can't look at the trades you just posted :) why? Please do the following trades: Can't get to m internet browser without it taking 20 mins Give contact with Japanese to England in exchange for 20g and horseback riding. Give contact with American and England to India in exchange for contact with Babylon, 24g and writing. No, I say follow my trades or the alternative trade Why CT? All contacts and give 29g for writing and horseback riding. reboot seems to have sorted it :-) you can still trade contacts after these trades are made Trading with other civs alters trade deals with 2nd and 3rd civs. Like trading techs I think we should go for the 'big fish' first. what is the big fish? *** FortyJ has joined #demogame *** ChanServ sets mode: +v FortyJ England. What was the problem with your CivIII, Eklektikos? Or we can do mine :) Get contact from the babs + 20g for contact with the americans from india. Then do the all communcations thing and writing & horseback + ?g with england.... We won't have to pay as much money ;) We can trade them for horseback riding then trade with India for writing. some problem with a .dll Is it working now? "binkw32.dll", to be precise yep, up running with the save open :-) we have a trade dispute Mr. President I know in my games, the longer you wait even to trade contacts, the more those contacts are going to cost. If we trade contacts now, it will save us in the long run. Contacts are already starting to be made. We can do all the contact trades during turn zero after we trade for hbr and writing im back, quick synopsis anyone? We can get 2 techs, 6 contacts, for our 6 contacts and 69g. just booted up, nl CT: Yup..... Do we want to do this trade? sounds like a good deal to me 69g is almost two warrior to swordsman upgrades We can do the all contact trades with the tech trades. CivGeneral: Their's an elite/vetern (can' tell which) jjag warrior near Valhalla *** sike1 has joined #demogame *** ChanServ sets mode: +v sike1 we can get these two techs and 44 gold - enough for an aextra upgrade We can sell contacts, too And get money from other nations. CT - how can you sell them if you trade them all away? After the big trade with england we can start to do that I know about that Elite Jag near our borders. and most everyone is broke anyway CT the others wont have them yet Only us and England will know about all the civs. because whoever we trade with wont have time to trade them Half the world doesn't know about what England knows. So, we will get those contacts, (which the others don't have), and use that as our bargaining chip. Donsig has a good point. How can we sell it to civs that are broke? Some civs aren't broke. Most aren't broke what is the issue here? some civs have techs we only need writing and horseback riding Ok, only us, and England will know of most of the contacts. trading for those techs is what this discussion is all about The other 12 (approx.) don't. we don't really need HBR yet That's where our extra source of income will come to make up for the 69g. Are you doing anything Eklektikos? Donsig: The 6 contacts we will get from england might be alot richer, smarter etc. We can trade are contacts with them to get more gold and techs I'd just spend the 60g and be done with it WE CAN STILL GET THE CONTACTS FROM ENGLAND PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That was my ear ;) AND WE KNOW THAT!!! :) WE DO NOT NEED TO SPEND GOLD FOR ANY TECHS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I know, but with 15 contacts (approx), we can TRADE THEM WITH OTHER NATIONS! :) We can get gold for those contacts! do I sense a problemhere? WE ARE NOT SPENDING GOLD FOR TECHS!! WE ARE SPENDING GOLD FOR COMMUNCATIONS!!! * CivGeneral gets ear plugs BEFORE ENGLAND TRADES THEM!! CT YOU CAN MAKE THE TRADES I SUGGEST AND STILL TRADE GET THOSE CONTACTS!!!!! why are we yelling? :D Don't know why :) BECAUSE YOU PEOPLE ARE FRUSTRATING ME IMMENSELY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THIS IS A TURNING POINT! IF WE GET THESE CONTACTS NOW, WE CAN -TRADE- THOSE FOR GOLD AND TECHS!! DONSIG TRADES CHANGE WHEN YOU TRADE WITH MORE THAN ONE CIV!!!! Eklektikos where are you? * Eklektikos is looking over the options before coming into this discussion go ct! STRIDER'S RIGHT! See my 2nd post at the bottom ekle. we will get techs by trading contacts!!!! what do you want Donsig? * CivGeneral removes ear plugs LET'S HAVE A VOTE IF WE WANT! :D so shaddap... lol Look at the turn chat instructions sike - I posted the trades there *we can dance if we want to...* sorry *you can leave your friends behind* ?? *cause your friends dont dance...* *and if they don't dance* *then theyre no friends of mine...* lol we should do karaoke I thought you just did yea, another buisiness idea for shaitan lol ..say we can go where we want to... *** OldMajor has joined #demogame *** ChanServ sets mode: +v OldMajor 3° Whoa! a nifty lookin' + thingie!! 3° i mean regularly have we decided anything about trades? Not that I know of nope, don't think so So I don't see a problem i think this will be a judgement call for elektikos how so? how to go about trading the contacts for what we can we didn't get a clear discussion of the issue Both sides will need to (calmly :)) present their arguements. OKK!! i agree :) one at a time, too. I like my proposal What proposal? With no talking from anyone else. k I'll start! the one I made in strider's thread Wait until Eklektikos comes back. sike: That's the one me and CT want's to do CT and I :) CT changed it tho :) How? *** bill_in_pdx has joined #demogame liz will give us all contacts in exchange for just 4 of our own... gandhi will give us Babs+writing+24g... the other civs we have contact with have little or nothing to offer... *** ChanServ sets mode: +v bill_in_pdx ok, she went back to the original down below hi bill Hi Good evening fellow citizens Eklek.... you have a decesion to make Hi Bill hey bill hi Bill hey hhey Eklektikos...what about HBR? yeah EK? HBR? *** OldMajor has quit IRC (QUIT: User exited) think a bit... HBR can be extracted from the Aztecs at swordpoint.... horse back riding ok k :) k hehe.. at swordpoint. :-0 ) ?? Eeee. The smiley with no eyes Most of the people want to get HBR now.... and not wait yea! we have no city close by where did they say this? got a poll you can show me? I have grown tired of riding around a chariot. Yup ;) HBR is not urgent Not an offical one, but it's a Science poll ;) http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33704 I agree with you, Cyc Lets find a way to ride on top of the horses ;) HBR may not be urgent but it is basically free in ths trade I agree with Cyc too. Horsebck riding is tied with writing (3rd place) and we will need it to advance to the next age, right? I also agree with Cyc Horsey Riding is pretty important, but since we have not horses nearby, it should be a victory item from the aztec sike: actually it could be.... This war might take longer than we expect.... THe horsemens extra movement might come in handy if this happens tru e I defantly agree :D Bill got to it in front of me :) but we have no worker to spare and no city close by "Give me more horsemen so that we cn conqure our enemie" If we're trading Gandhi for contact with the Babylons why not get HBR in the deal? That war had better not be a long one, or it will become a domino war part 2. Can we get something else from Ghandi? We could I still say we can get those techs and contacts with the English for our contacts and 69g. if it's free i don't see a problem from what i understand, we cna get everything by trading with everyone Sike: Their are some horse's not far away from are terrority(I believe) If the war does come to that it would not take to much effort to move a settler over their If we pay 69 gold then that is two warriors we can't upgrade brb We should make contact with everyone - I feel we lost our edge with only 3 cities... made my trades and we get 44g - nough to do another upgrade donsig: and we can get 69g or more from the contacts england gives us But, we can get that gold back by trading contact with other civs. we suspect that chieftess, but who else has gold to give? but they are broke how do you know you can get 69g back? You say you can't do my trades becasue the trades will change but that doesn't seem to apply to your ideas sike: Not really.... 20g for one contact is nice in away.... true Other civs still have some gold left donsig: We will never know what the trade is beforehand because we don't know them yet we should have hooked up that road to Bavaria right away... then how can you say we'll get 69g back? There are some civs with gold in there pockets Russia has 22, Aztecs have 20 zzzzzzzzzzz strider has a point, but sometimes they just trade themselves broke...we should deal to get contact with all, but preferrably not lose money in the deal India has 24 If we canget 20+ each contact then we could make 69+ easily what do we possibly need gold for Donsig? let's spend it all... Plus, There's 6 more we can trade with! sike: We need gold for upgrading warriors After the English trade. The total gold in all the treasuries is less than 100 gold We need gold for the upgrades of the warriors 2 covs have none So, by giving 69g, we can turn that around and make just as much or more by contact trades. one has 2 one has 13g back covs = civs What should we trade our gold away just to buy it back???? *why We get 2 more techs out of it. AND, there's 6 more civs that are bound to have gold left over. we can get the same techs and 44g I think we will still be able to make contact trades If we don't trade contacts, it will be harder to get them in the future. Yup true It will start to cost gold. look, trade with the english, then trade what you get from them plus our stuff to everyone who doesnt have it yet We'll end up losing MORE if we wait! english really want Japan contact Contacts are cheap now..... Let's get them while we can WE CAN DO THE CONTACT TRADES THIS TURN AFTER THE TECH TRADES *** Octavian_X has joined #demogame *** ChanServ sets mode: +v Octavian_X *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Octavian_X NO! IF WE WAIT! WE MAY LOSE OUR CHANCE! THIS IS A TURNING POINT! :) I am going out drinking because this is way too frustrating for me tonioght NO ONE SAYS TO WAIT what have I missed? Nothing The great trade debate everything aahhhh... you missed alot of silly yelling :) CG had earplugs. So which one are we doing? Donsig, here's your free drink ticket... then I would rather have had that spaghetti thnaks sike. see you at the Cattleman We may be trading 69g, but if we wait, we may end up paying more in the long run. Yup what does the President think? This is apparently a large pangaea. If we wander around, it'll take probably 100 turns to find them all! true, So we should get the contacts now. Since they would be expensive latter in the years. Well, I've said all I can say. I only wish I could be here for the vote. no one asks for a vice presidential opinion:( bye *** donsig has left #demogame bye I say trade with the English now before our oppurtunity vanishes! Ok. What is the VP's opinion on this ;) Because the Vice President won't shares his doughnuts ;) CT: Donsig isn't suggesting to wait till next turn, just until after we've performed his trades honsestly, i haven't the slightest clue to as what's going on true If we perform other trades now, it will alter the main trade. true The English might want more than we can give. Also ours can produce more income we are not going to be able to buy embassies Let's go for the big fish now, and eat the little fish afterwards. sike: Who cares about embassies :) EA why do we need to get everything from them? we can get all their contacts and get our tech elsewhere We can make up for lost gold from other nations. hey, I like my proposal Is there any guidence from the forums for this action? Not really.... I would rather have the new contacts I believe There wasn't a lot of discussion. Thus the Great Trade Debates I really could care less about new contacts Why? More contacts means cheaper techs. We would probhibly bump into them later if we go with CT's idea, then we're essentially gambling 20-25g that the new contacts will be willing to pay for our current contacts, right? hey 40J Hi 40j hello all If we get 20g for each nation for one contact that will be 120g.... - the 69g we lost for the trade and we got 50g extra still recovering from UM-FSU earlier... we have no need to gamble at all right - if we play our cards right, we can come out on top. I wanted him to make that FG sooo bad Fortyj: Doesn't matter..... 20g per contact is cheap.... we could probley get 24-30 for most of them We only have 3 cities, were other nations probably have 4-5. We need an edge on everyone else! Right, but all of our current contacts can probably muster about 45-50g You point is one that? So, the balance from our 69g downstroke would have to come from the new contacts. Of there other 6 nations, there's bound to be gold there. right. and are 6 true So, we're talking 20-25gp at risk. That's not too steep of a shot at our military production. I say we go for it. Fortyj: What do you mean 20-25g risk? yes, but we have no need to pay any gold at all for the contacts in the first place There's atleast 60 gold floating around that we can get. I've looked at trade options with those civs, and they'll gladly pay 20-25 for just 1 contact. We can probably get 45-50 from our current contacts. Eklek: We won't be paying gold for contacts... were be paying gold for techs! ...b/c they don't have any more than that. we don't need to pay gold for techs either i would rather not take the risk. we will need all the gold we can get Especaly with the upcomming war We can't just let our chance slip away! i agree. we'll need alot of gold, especially after writing (for embassies), but we're only talking ~20g~ we would not be, CT I propose we bring this all down to vote Eklek: yes it would be The two techs are writing and hbr right? Neither is especially needed for our war given the absence of horseys in our civ bill: Yup any tech is a good tech that to And it saves us from spending the extra X amount of turns. but this is a grab all or grab nothing sitution.... Mr. President, think about the proposed questions and take a vote I agree that acquiring tech is usually good...we need to be careful risking upgrade cash for contacts The 2 worlds are about to meet. We need to be the ones selling contacts. I already know what he's going to say.... We need a spot-vote ;) exactly chieftess makes a strong point i have to go in a few minutes lets hurry this up we need to do this now CT, does your 69gp proposal include HBR & Writing? yes lets not sit here all night and discuss! what about if we leave out HBR? Octavian_X - There have been longer pre turns. ;) we need hbr neutral, why? HBR is basically a freebie i know... we'll can get HBR from another civ or through conquest, i'm guessing. it isn't neccessary to the war effort because that ability is a crucial military technology of the ancient times HBR is tied with writing.... If we go one way then half of the citizens will be mad.... Trust me I made that mistake last year ;) we don't even need HBR Last term rather one we capture horses from the aztecs youll be glad you have it not yet we have no horses We can leave out the HBR and 69 gold. right we will soon true Neutral, but whe have not even started the war yeat We need HBR though *yet So, we get all contacts plus writing for our contacts? or, we can leave out writing and contact with the indians yes I only have one thing to add....Go Ducks! 6-0! Should've played Miami for the championship last year....now back to the debate... dont wait till we need horsemen hehe bill, that's funny not yet, hbr can wait until we have horses don't go wishing to ruin your new year I agree with Octavian LOL....how about a vote Get the contacts and Writing - save HBR for later the official position of the bpa is that we need hbr asap *** Falcon02 has joined #demogame *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Falcon02 or, we could continue talking until we're all horarse yes - I think we can even get HBR and contact with the babs from India. Howdy Octavian: It is taking us 16 turns + to research a tech.... Those 16 turns can be used researching another tech if we get HBR right now put up some good options Mr. President... exactly Falcon: You waled into an insane house :) *walked what I propose we do is this: give all our contacts except the indians to the English in exchange for all of their contacts and horseback riding, and make the indian trade as already set out. lol vote now! or waltz. :) waltzed HBR? Horseback Riding ohh good plan ek Eklek: I disagree... Do the full trade this way we get everything, and spend not a penny good plan Ek Call the Vote! I'm not sure Horses are so important go eklek! falcon is right You missed The Great Trade Debates just go with the Sword assault That's why the horsies and 69g is optional. ;) we ned to decide now i agree