Session Start: Sat Jul 14 09:53:43 2007 Session Ident: #turnchat

[09:53] * Now talking in #turnchat

[09:53] * ChanServ sets mode: +rs

[09:53] * ChanServ changes topic to 'Turnchat Monday, June 11th, 10:30pm MST (0530GMT Tuesday)'

[09:53] * Mafioso has joined #turnchat

[09:53] * Mafioso sets mode: +o Mafioso

[09:53] * Mafioso sets mode: -o Methos

[09:54] * Provo has joined #turnchat

[09:54] Provo: hey there Methos

[09:54] Provo: I am just making sure things go smooth here :)

[09:56] Methos: that's fine.

[09:56] Methos: I just woke up, hehe, slept a little late

[09:57] * dutchfire has joined #turnchat

[09:57] dutchfire: hi

[09:58] Provo: all good hi

[09:58] dutchfire: when are we going to start?

[09:58] Provo: I think we agree we want to conquer Cologne around turn 10 ?

[09:58] Provo: just make sure you do the promotions and unit names first

[09:58] Methos: game is loading right now

[09:59] Methos: I did the promos and names during the special session

[09:59] Methos: except for the newly created units

[10:00] Methos: ok, game is loaded

[10:01] dutchfire: I thought this was going to be played at 17.00 gmt?

[10:01] Methos: Lol! I just realizd I forgot to post my own instructions!

[10:01] Provo: yes

[10:01] Provo: we are 1 hour early

[10:01] Methos: 10 am cst

[10:02] Methos: I screwed up the GMT didn't I?

[10:02] Provo: only 1 hour

[10:02] dutchfire: you did, it's only 15.00 gmt now (it's 17.00 CET)

[10:02] Provo: you can do the preturn things anyways

[10:02] Provo: we should use CET

[10:02] Provo: GMT is only for the Brits and Irish

[10:03] Methos: I have to play now. I can't put it off for another hour or two

[10:03] Provo: it is like using gallons here

[10:03] Provo: play it now then

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[10:03] Methos: We've been using GMT since that is something everything can (usually) figure out

[10:03] * Mafioso sets mode: +o DaveShack

[10:03] Methos: Hey Have

[10:03] Methos: Hey Dave

[10:03] Provo: GMT made sense back then

[10:03] DaveShack: hi

[10:03] Provo: now CET makes more sense

[10:03] Provo: hi DS

[10:03] Methos: Apparently I screwed up the GMT DS

[10:04] Methos: Going over the instructions now

[10:04] DaveShack: what local time and tz was it supposed to be?

[10:05] dutchfire: the GMT was 2 hours of

[10:06] Methos: 10 am CST, or Central Time

[10:06] DaveShack: so 1500 gmt

[10:07] Methos: yeah, my mistake

[10:07] dutchfire: hyronymus should be here any minute

[10:07] * Hyronymus has joined #turnchat

[10:07] Methos: hello

[10:08] Hyronymus: hi Methos

[10:08] Methos: for those of you who are interested, they're discussing the mongol campaign on the history channel

[10:08] Methos: It's called the "Plague"

[10:09] Hyronymus: no, get on with it!

[10:09] Hyronymus: :P

[10:10] Methos: I'm working on it. I'm trying to understand Provo's instructions! Ha!

[10:11] Provo: the Mongols brought forth the Black Plague, at Caffa in the Crimean Peninsula

[10:11] Provo: what they did not kill, they congested

[10:12] Provo: I think Tolkien got his inspiration from the Mongol attack on Europe

[10:12] Provo: Rohan= Hungary, Gondor = Poland and so on

[10:12] Methos: It's really interesting.

[10:13] Provo: yes, that killed 1/3 of Europes population, the Black Plague

[10:13] Provo: some places close to 50 %

[10:13] Provo: it took 150 years or so before the population was back to normal

[10:14] Methos: @Provo: the 2nd Boyan Pillagers, do they just stop on the hill north of Frankfurt? He still has movement, but I believe that's as far as you wanted him to go.

[10:15] Methos: Frankfurth has two base LB's

[10:15] Provo: on the map ?

[10:15] Provo: write this intel down, Joe did not with Cologne, so we are guessing there

[10:16] Methos: I see two LB's

[10:16] Provo: base LBs is good

[10:16] Provo: LBs in both Tartar and Frankfurt ?

[10:17] Methos: Tarter had more, but I did the double move so didn't get to see. I'll go back one tile next turn if you want. Sorry about that.

[10:18] Provo: do that

[10:18] Provo: scouting is key

[10:18] Provo: we also want Dortmund this chat, with the northgoing one

[10:18] Methos: boyan trickriders take out the cat

[10:19] Provo: scouting allows us to measure how much units we need to send in

[10:19] Provo: yes, the Catapult attack was 98 % odds or something

[10:19] Provo: keshiks got that special bonus

[10:20] DaveShack: @provo - now is when those weird names get really annoying for some DP's

[10:20] DaveShack: paging lag is bad enough when you're not trying to type 20 letter names

[10:20] Methos: yes, it is very annoying. let alone trying to find them

[10:20] Provo: the naming is getting shorter by the day

[10:20] Methos: good

[10:21] Provo: Joe did most of it

[10:21] DaveShack: i'm referring to echoing your moves into the chat

[10:21] DaveShack: you have to say that name over and over

[10:21] Provo: naming is good for some people to relate to a unit with promotions, and only a number does not do that

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[10:22] Methos: I agree on the naming, but we need to make them shorter. Sucks writing.

[10:23] Provo: ok, we can retain Pillagers, and so on

[10:23] Provo: Siege series is an example of good naming (City raider catapults)

[10:24] Provo: at least the military is now sending units where they should be

[10:24] Provo: spearmen to the Roman side and so on

[10:25] DaveShack: some naming is ok, just think in terms of the repetition factor

[10:25] Methos: which Khan's axement did you want to attack the spearman on the iron? There's two axmen who start with the name Khan.

[10:25] DaveShack: the one with best odds? :p

[10:25] Provo: yes

[10:26] Provo: most experienced troops

[10:26] Provo: yes, the two starting with Khan, are the best

[10:26] Provo: Noyan are more mid-level

[10:26] Provo: the Khan head for the Tartar Iron spearman

[10:27] Provo: we send two axemen to each of their iron, 4 axemen in total

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[10:27] Methos: did you want both n. ax's to go to the essen iron, or just one?

[10:27] Provo: both

[10:27] Provo: we want to control their iron

[10:27] Methos: just read that above

[10:30] Provo: DS, I took into consideration your input on delaying the assault to most of the courthouses were up

[10:31] Provo: this allowed us to open the assault with the triple promotion city raider maceman

[10:31] * fed1943 has joined #turnchat

[10:32] Provo: hey fed

[10:32] fed1943: hi people (hard time to arrive here)

[10:32] Methos: hello

[10:32] Provo: they are doing the preparatory moves

[10:32] fed1943: hi

[10:32] Methos: Sorry, it's taking a while moving all the military troops.

[10:33] Provo: most troops are "military" ;)

[10:34] Provo: After the Cologne Battle, see if the Germans accept peace for Compass

[10:34] fed1943: so, we will not follow the troops moves?

[10:34] Provo: that is to be polled

[10:34] Provo: troops moves?

[10:35] fed1943: the moviments of the troops (to also move them in each computer)

[10:36] DaveShack: we're not supposed to follow along because we might use a different route and accidentally reveal info

[10:36] Methos: @fed, sorry but I really don't want to write them all out here.

[10:36] Provo: each computer ?

[10:36] Methos: It's not like at Poly and the Atlantians

[10:36] Provo: fed, he only summarizes the key events

[10:36] fed1943: ok

[10:36] Methos: You can follow along with Provos instructions if you want, I'm current in the Macemen section

[10:36] Provo: but he writes down intel

[10:37] DaveShack: but only the DP should actually move the units -- we can ask for saves if we want to be caught up

[10:38] fed1943: I know the DP computer has the true game; but just to us follow and know the game...

[10:38] Provo: yes, I was surprised nothing was written about Cologne last time

[10:38] Provo: from now on, intel will be specified

[10:39] Provo: I think he will tell us German force observations, and the outcomes of battles

[10:39] Methos: I believe fed is used to the C4SPG Atlantian game, which is done differently than ours

[10:39] Provo: Atlantian ?

[10:40] fed1943: that is Methos and I didn't notice that difference

[10:40] Provo: well

[10:40] Provo: we need to know how the battle goes

[10:41] Methos: I haven't made it to the battle yet, lol. I'm almost finished with the macemen section of your instructions.

[10:41] Provo: hehe , I know

[10:41] Methos: renaming sucks! I thought we did all that during the special session

[10:41] Provo: we are the superpower

[10:42] Provo: the thing, is that the polls ended up the way they did, and Joe forgot some renaming/promotions I asked for last TC

[10:43] Provo: Methos, Munich Guard should of course go to Munich

[10:43] Provo: forgot that one

[10:46] Methos: man, I wish we would have done this during the special session. Yeah I realize the special session was done to prepare for this, so I understand.

[10:47] Provo: good news, I do not want Riversight to produce troops, just build workers there

[10:49] Provo: or a missionary for Cologne

[10:50] Methos: Ok, I'm to the cat section

[10:51] * Joe32320 has joined #turnchat

[10:51] Joe32320: hi

[10:51] fed1943: hi

[10:51] Provo: hi Joe :)

[10:51] Provo: I joined your parliament game

[10:51] Provo: but not as socialist

[10:51] Joe32320: I saw

[10:52] Joe32320: What as, a consevative?

[10:52] * Joe32320 has quit IRC (Client exited)

[10:52] Provo: fell out

[10:53] Methos: ok, all Provo's troops have been set to their "Go-To" moves.

[10:53] Methos: BTW, I'm still on turn 1.

[10:53] Methos: Need to check evreyone elses instructions. Oh my

[10:54] Provo: lol

[10:54] Provo: just make a buildqueue out of each city

[10:54] * Joe32320 has joined #turnchat

[10:54] Provo: would do fine

[10:54] Provo: hey again Joe

[10:54] Joe32320: sorry internet is not great!

[10:54] Provo: it is great, in general, but not today you mean

[10:55] Joe32320: yes i mean it's not working well

[10:55] Provo: anyways, I am looking forwards to a sort of map in that game

[10:55] Provo: if they pick those Pacific islands

[10:55] Provo: I would be in a "Generalissimo" Party

[10:56] Provo: Patriarchical, Militarist, Nationalist, all in good fun

[10:56] fed1943: brr...

[10:56] Provo: hehe

[10:56] Provo: just a game

[10:56] Provo: we are mongols here

[10:57] fed1943: i know, mongols are peaceful and kind (not our fault others are in our continent)

[10:57] Joe32320: absolutly, they bought it on themselves!

[10:57] Provo: I thought of sparing the friendly Germans for a while, but now that the war is on, we better complete it

[10:58] Methos: finished DS's instructions, starting on ordinairyguy's

[10:58] Provo: Ï think we should use this war to get techs

[11:00] Joe32320: I would like to wipe Germany of the map.

[11:00] Provo: me too

[11:00] fed1943: it has to be done, sooner or later (sooner the better)

[11:00] Provo: but techs is nice too

[11:01] Provo: in about 30 turns or so, they may be gone

[11:02] Methos: up to Joe's now, yeah

[11:02] Provo: Joe, I need no more soldiers from Riversight

[11:02] Provo: if we added workers, that would be nice to all

[11:03] fed1943: just +1 food surplus in Riversight

[11:03] Joe32320: Well then Methos you can do what you want with riversight

[11:03] Provo: for workers that is ?

[11:03] fed1943: yes

[11:03] Provo: we only got 11 workers for several hundred tiles

[11:03] Provo: even with serfdom, it is tough

[11:04] Joe32320: Well then build some workers in Riversight

[11:05] fed1943: well, NotA and Paris better builders of workers (not very important,but)

[11:05] Provo: I rather wait for Vassalage, and we get a concentrated bunch of expert soldiers

[11:05] Provo: NOTA has bigger projects, and Paris is getting basics up

[11:05] Joe32320: Well there isn't anythin of importance to build in riversight

[11:06] Methos: finally, everyone's instructions are done except my own, which are merely MM'ing. It's been over an hour and I'm almost done with turn 1.

[11:06] Provo: Riversight is in the most work-intensive area

[11:06] Methos: This sucks!

[11:06] Provo: Turn 1 is the hardest

[11:06] Provo: the rest is easy

[11:06] fed1943: and when battles start

[11:07] Provo: turn 3-4 and turn 8-10

[11:07] Provo: Battle of Iron Field

[11:07] Provo: and Conquest of Cologne

[11:07] fed1943: that's also intensive for DP

[11:07] Provo: knowledge intensive, and fun

[11:07] Provo: I guess Methos like that part

[11:09] fed1943: have not you,Provolution,the chance of say anything as each battle goes on?

[11:09] Provo: I need to agree on instructions I gave

[11:09] Provo: but I might add something turn 11

[11:10] Provo: if there are heavy surprises, DP improvizes

[11:10] fed1943: good

[11:11] Methos: ok, my instructions are done. I need to move the single units like workers and such, or any military that for some reason didn't have orders

[11:11] Provo: I think I gave all military orders :)

[11:12] Methos: yeah, it was simply the guards fortifying.

[11:12] Provo: good call

[11:12] Methos: Turn is done, does anyone wish to look at it prior to be playing on?

[11:12] Provo: City Garrison Longbowmen are nice

[11:12] Provo: we trust you

[11:12] Joe32320: no not really

[11:13] Methos: ok, ending turn

[11:13] Provo: how much left of attacking Keshik ?

[11:16] Methos: here, check this out

[11:16] Provo: LOL, the turnchat heading is 1 month old

[11:16] Methos: http://www.civfanatics.net/methos/games/dg2/1380ad_cologne.JPG

[11:17] Provo: wow

[11:17] Provo: Double City Garrison Longbow

[11:17] Provo: Axeman is easy

[11:17] Provo: can you see the defense bonuses ?

[11:18] Methos: +40%

[11:18] Methos: Did that get chopped in the pic?

[11:18] Provo: yes

[11:18] Provo: but I know now

[11:18] Provo: so we need catapults for sure

[11:19] Provo: did Chichen Itza defense bonus go on ?

[11:19] Methos: I'm not for sure, what do you mean?

[11:20] Provo: the Germans had Chichen Itza, and did the tile bonus of 40 % cultural bonus come from Cologne as is, or did Chichen Itza help it ?

[11:20] Provo: I got the odds here

[11:20] * DaveShack changes topic to 'Turnchat now'

[11:20] Provo: 20.8 % pre catapult chances for the Gatebreakers

[11:20] Joe32320: 40% will just be the cultural bonus

[11:21] Provo: increases to 60 % after catapults have done their job

[11:21] Provo: we can live with that

[11:21] Provo: Axemen are already dead

[11:22] Methos: here's another pic

[11:22] Methos: http://www.civfanatics.net/methos/games/dg2/1380ad_stuttgart.JPG

[11:22] Provo: Stuttgart we can take this turn

[11:22] Provo: does it have cultural defense?

[11:24] Methos: here's another one

[11:24] Methos: http://www.civfanatics.net/methos/games/dg2/1380ad_tartar.JPG

[11:24] Methos: stuttgart has no cultural defense and tartar has +50%

[11:25] Provo: interesting

[11:25] Provo: we still need to poll Stuttgart

[11:25] Provo: right ?

[11:25] Provo: we originally planned a city almost there

[11:26] Provo: so we could raze it

[11:27] DaveShack: the poll says to keep it

[11:27] Provo: yes

[11:27] Provo: this TC

[11:27] Provo: Dortmund was raze

[11:28] Provo: that iron field is the first interesting battle

[11:28] DaveShack: that's interesting, at only one pop it would autoraze

[11:28] Methos: bad news. due to our economy research dropped to 10%, I had no choice it auto did it

[11:28] DaveShack: a legalist might say we can't take it so we can't attack it

[11:28] Methos: That means that banking got pushed back to 20 turns from this point (I'm on turn 2)

[11:29] Methos: Ready to end turn 2, does anyone wish to see it?

[11:29] Provo: I am glad I stopped troop production

[11:29] Provo: we trust you

[11:29] DaveShack: maybe the people who were complaining about cities on wealth would like to retract their statements now

[11:29] Methos: ok, hitting end turn

[11:30] Provo: wealth cities should build markets and grocers and so on

[11:30] Provo: still stand by that

[11:30] DaveShack: we need the gold now to get to banking

[11:30] Provo: they can build grocers and so on until then

[11:31] Provo: at least OR speeds those buildings ahead

[11:31] DaveShack: it would be more efficient to get mercantilism first

[11:31] Joe32320: got to go

[11:31] * Joe32320 has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)

[11:31] Provo: yes, mercantilism, and Vassalage I think

[11:31] DaveShack: we're looking at a 10 turn delay, which is something like 150 gold from lost specialist income

[11:32] Provo: would cut some upkeep and give better troops

[11:32] Methos: most of my cities are working on grocers and trying to increase our commerce. But if we're not careful we're going to be forced to 0%.

[11:32] Provo: this will improve throughout the turns

[11:33] Methos: My original instructions by the chieftain were to play until banking, but there's no way I'm playing 20 turns.

[11:33] Provo: Methos, stop producing more catapults in Coppertown after this and the next

[11:33] Provo: just to make sure we are not overbuilding units now

[11:33] Methos: legally I can't accept your instructions, but I can listen to your advice. I have to go with what the instructions already were unless there's a strong reason to go against it.

[11:34] Provo: it read as "catapults" on Coppertown

[11:34] DaveShack: technically even then

[11:34] Provo: and some leeway is fair

[11:34] Methos: btw DS, your iron is having a mine built on it right now

[11:35] Provo: which iron ?

[11:35] DaveShack: much as I hate stoppages / slow progress, we might need to discuss this economic situation

[11:35] DaveShack: how much + are we at with 10%?

[11:36] Methos: The turn it went down was around +21, last turn was +17, we're now at +15. I'm stopping all unit builds right now as it's destroying us economically.

[11:36] Provo: With Vassalage, we would have had some more gold , I think about 5-10 %

[11:36] Methos: DP's observance, I'm expecting legal action. Lol

[11:36] Methos: The iron is near one of DS's towns that didnt get done last TC

[11:36] Provo: Methos, we are getting the last catapult there ?

[11:37] DaveShack: Munich

[11:37] Provo: not munich

[11:37] Provo: they are heading straight for that hill

[11:37] Provo: not munich

[11:37] Provo: otherwise, we fail to be there in time

[11:37] Methos: Riversight and Coppertown have both been switched to Grocer's, we'll be done in 5 and 6 turns

[11:37] Provo: good call

[11:38] DaveShack: no, munich was the answer to the iron question

[11:38] Provo: I have no objections

[11:38] Provo: oh, I see

[11:38] Provo: Munich has potential

[11:38] Provo: could also be the HE city

[11:39] Provo: 10 % is bad

[11:39] Methos: the iron near tartar is now under our control.

[11:39] Provo: good

[11:40] Provo: how did the battle go ?

[11:40] Provo: XP wise

[11:40] Methos: What the? We just dropped to +10 gpt. Need to check the cities and do a little MM'ing.

[11:40] Provo: good

[11:40] Methos: I'll probably have to alter some of the instructions to help boost our economy.

[11:41] Provo: do that

[11:41] Provo: I think MM is killing us now

[11:41] Provo: that and to few workers

[11:41] Provo: too few

[11:41] Provo: I may also agree to disband warriors with no XP

[11:42] Methos: DS, you have a cow being improved too. I'm amazed at how many resources we have that aren't improved on.

[11:42] Provo: I think we may need a small German peace to get the economy up

[11:43] Provo: Methos, we are short on workers you see, part of the reason I lobbied for Serfdom

[11:43] DaveShack: the gpt drop is due to units outside borders

[11:43] DaveShack: I'd suggest frequent looks at F2

[11:43] Provo: yes, war is expensive

[11:43] Provo: I think vassalage would help

[11:43] Provo: look at F2 please

[11:43] DaveShack: remember the term "broken record" ?

[11:43] Provo: yes

[11:44] Provo: Cato also had something about Carthage

[11:44] DaveShack: vasselage, vasselage, ... :D

[11:44] Provo: I know DS

[11:44] Provo: I got "Vassalage" album, you got "Longbowman" album :)

[11:44] Provo: The Feudal Woodstock right there

[11:45] Provo: how is F2 ?

[11:47] Provo: http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/unit_maintenance.php

[11:48] fed1943: the big cost is from cities

[11:48] Methos: Ok, with some MM'ing I've got it back up to 20% research with a -3 gpt. I can remove the negative gold, but prefer not to as it's stagnates NOTB.

[11:48] Provo: yes

[11:48] Provo: we can handle some minus gold, Cologne will net us a few

[11:49] Methos: plus we have several builds coming up shortly that should help us.

[11:50] Methos: Getting ready to end turn 3. Do you all wish to see the save?

[11:50] Provo: all right, formula is about 4 population points per free unit

[11:50] Provo: we trust you

[11:50] Methos: ending turn

[11:51] Provo: Methos, please see on the Axeman that fought, XP/damage?

[11:53] Methos: He's up to 16/17 xp and let me check his health real quick

[11:54] Methos: 1.8

[11:54] Provo: wow

[11:54] Provo: close call

[11:54] Provo: thanks

[11:54] Provo: I just made some analysis on "upkeep"

[11:57] Provo: we got 120 pop points and got about 30 free, and we got 45 military units or so, which explains our miltiary upkeep of 15-16

[11:57] Provo: this is where the Broken Record kicks in

[11:58] Methos: here's another pic

[11:58] Methos: http://www.civfanatics.net/methos/games/dg2/1390ad_dortmund.JPG

[11:59] fed1943: the problem comes from large cities maintenance

[11:59] Provo: Dortmund will be tough

[11:59] Provo: yes, Courthouses will help out

[12:00] DaveShack: are those all longbows, or some workers?

[12:00] Provo: I guess banking lands at 12T

[12:00] Provo: 2 workers

[12:00] fed1943: courthouses and increase commerce everywhere but just 1 or 2 military cities

[12:00] DaveShack: oh, duh

[12:00] Provo: but one longbow, city garrison and axeman now, means some after peace, war and peace

[12:00] Provo: Fed, this is why HE would help out

[12:01] fed1943: that's the reason i supported it

[12:01] Methos: this pic isn't good

[12:01] Methos: http://www.civfanatics.net/methos/games/dg2/1410ad_most_advanced.JPG

[12:01] DaveShack: most advanced can be a funny one

[12:02] Methos: I'm curious how they pic civs as advanced

[12:02] DaveShack: I've seen several techs of lead but one civ is a level deeper in one branch

[12:02] Provo: As the production clan keeps telling me, we can outproduce the enemies by far, but they forget to tell about upkeep and maintenance

[12:02] Provo: I rather have a smaller and better army

[12:02] Methos: btw, we're still at 20% and now at +1 gpt

[12:02] Provo: good

[12:03] DaveShack: it's like it measures who has the rightmost tech on the screen, without regard to total beakers

[12:03] Methos: MM'ing really helps at this point

[12:03] Provo: yes, DS is right about "Advanced"

[12:03] Provo: I guess the other continent is peaceful

[12:03] Provo: and possibly an isolated continent where they fall behind

[12:04] Provo: it is this "isolated continent" we need to conquer

[12:05] Methos: the troops are now within range of cologne. nex turn I'll start bombarding even though only a single cat has made it there

[12:06] Provo: yes, a prelude to disaster for them, the early arty

[12:06] Methos: didn't want to pass up the chance, so one of berlins guard (it has three) left the city to howdy a passing german longbow

[12:07] Provo: good call

[12:07] Provo: I just safekept Berlin with wonders and all

[12:08] Provo: what happened +

[12:10] Provo: ok, we are a standard map, which means there are only 3 unseen Civs

[12:12] Methos: Munich's iron is mined and the courthouse there will be done in three

[12:12] * DaveShack has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 360 seconds)

[12:12] Methos: we killed the lb outside of berlin, if that's what you mean.

[12:12] Provo: good call

[12:13] Methos: Currently at 34 gold with +1 gpt. Did some more MM'ing to increase growth while maintaining the economy.

[12:13] Provo: good

[12:13] Methos: oh yeah, ending turn. Can't remember what turn I'm on anymore

[12:13] Provo: around turn 4-5

[12:13] Provo: 5 I guess

[12:14] Provo: since you attacked with catapults

[12:14] Provo: you can see the year

[12:14] Provo: 1420 ?

[12:14] Methos: Neopilis just completed their courthouse and

[12:15] Methos: +8 gpt

[12:15] Methos: brb baby puked have to clean her up

[12:15] Provo: good

[12:15] Provo: I mean the gold

[12:19] Methos: im back

[12:19] Methos: lol! I understand what you meant. haha

[12:21] Methos: There's a new macemen in munich, I believe he just completed. What's his name, where you want him, and what promo?

[12:23] Provo: we put him into Riversight or another city as garrison

[12:23] Provo: normal Combat

[12:24] Provo: Coppertown with warrior +

[12:24] Provo: ?

[12:24] Methos: Cologne down to 34% and a 2nd cat just arrived

[12:25] Provo: good

[12:25] Provo: but wait till the city elite takers from pisae arrives

[12:26] Methos: This turn NOTA will complete its grocer so that should really help out. Need to do some MM'ing, than the turn is up

[12:27] Provo: ok

[12:28] Methos: ending turn

[12:31] Methos: cologne is down to 22%

[12:32] Provo: good

[12:33] Provo: we are still waiting for triple city raider

[12:36] Methos: Ok, I've got us up to 30% with 40 some gold in the treasure earning -6 gpt.

[12:36] Methos: There's a grocer and a courthouse about to be complete, so it should level out soon.

[12:36] Methos: oh yeah, ending turn.

[12:37] Provo: good

[12:37] Methos: Also, Banking is back to complete in five

[12:37] Provo: good

[12:37] Methos: I had to set NOTA to wealth to do it though

[12:37] Provo: I see

[12:37] Provo: at the cost of building ?

[12:38] Provo: just make banking come for the target date of conquering cologne

[12:38] Provo: planning the civics change there

[12:38] Methos: NOTA doesn't have anything else worth building that would benefit it at this exact moment.

[12:38] Provo: but see if we can make a peace with Germany after the conquest, prior to Civics change

[12:38] Methos: It could use some builds, but they won't help out for quite a while.

[12:38] Provo: like aqueduct ?

[12:39] Methos: BTW, we lost the 2nd b. pillagers to a cat

[12:39] Methos: yeah, like aque

[12:39] Provo: they ambushed us ?

[12:39] Methos: one of our cats was attacked by a germ cat, but we forced them to withdraw

[12:39] Methos: no. it was sitting on the forested hill and the germans attacked it. I wouldn't have expected us too lose

[12:39] Provo: hmm, all right

[12:40] Provo: some losses happen

[12:40] Provo: but for the future, keep keshiks mobil

[12:40] Provo: mobile

[12:40] Provo: not fortify

[12:40] Provo: we are now down to 5 keshiks

[12:42] Methos: sorry, the last word I had was to go to that hill, so I left him there.

[12:42] Methos: cologne is down to 4%, so I plan on assaulting it next turn.

[12:42] Provo: I think that the Catapult may have had "Formation" promotion or something

[12:42] Provo: Methos,

[12:43] Provo: wait with the attack till the triple city raider comes

[12:43] Provo: it is in the instructions

[12:43] Provo: this in order to absorb the city cost

[12:43] Provo: just keep their defense bonus at 0

[12:44] Methos: ok, rechecking the instructions now.

[12:44] Provo: ok

[12:45] Provo: We let the catapults bombard Cologne for breaking down defense value until the arrival at the gates of Cologne, with Khans Gatebreakers (triple city raider and combat promotions) attacking turn 10 (as he reaches the hill T8, outside T9 and attack T10). It is very important this moves out of Pisae, as this was ignored in the previous TC, both promotion and move. This is our best Gatebreaker hence the name.

[12:45] Methos: gatebreaker will be able to attack in two turns

[12:45] Provo: pasted it from there

[12:45] Provo: 2 turns is good

[12:45] Methos: I use IE7 so each instruction post is in its own tab. Makes it easier to bounce around all of them.

[12:45] Provo: we get the best odds there

[12:46] Provo: I use Mozilla for the same

[12:46] Provo: same TAB system

[12:46] Methos: I used a keshik to take out the 0.3 cat that attacked ours. Since we're not attacking for two turns I didn't want him to go to cologne and heal

[12:47] Provo: good call

[12:47] Provo: Trickriders, they are good

[12:47] Provo: and he got XP too

[12:47] * DaveShack has joined #turnchat

[12:47] * Mafioso sets mode: +o DaveShack

[12:48] Provo: and this time, he is not staying on that hill :=)

[12:48] DaveShack: still going? looks like my connection dropped while I was away

[12:48] Provo: we won all battles but a catapult ambush

[12:48] Provo: so we are good

[12:48] Provo: just Cologne left

[12:49] Provo: so now the Germans lost 2 cats

[12:49] Methos: ok, we're at 40% research now, 37 gold and -10 gpt. We have both a grocer and courthouse completing this turn

[12:50] DaveShack: what turn?

[12:50] Provo: are we ahead of schedule for banking ?

[12:50] Methos: yes, banking will be done in three turns.

[12:50] Provo: one turn shorter than planned ?

[12:50] fed1943: excellent!

[12:50] Methos: Its 1440 ad

[12:51] Methos: yeah, looks that way. I'm a bit of a MM'er

[12:51] Methos: ending turn

[12:51] Provo: yes, I hope we can replace a few unit losses in a bit

[12:51] Provo: when are Coppertown Grocery done ?

[12:51] Provo: that and Riversight ?

[12:53] Methos: coppertown's grocer just finished and I'm considering to going back to units there. it has nothing else to build.

[12:53] Methos: we're now at +12 gpt @ 40%

[12:53] Provo: nice

[12:53] fed1943: see,economy is find

[12:53] Provo: add some workers in riversight

[12:54] Provo: back to the tiles not being developed

[12:54] Methos: someone just built the Sistine Chapel

[12:54] Provo: yeah

[12:54] Provo: someone unknown ?

[12:54] Methos: yep

[12:54] Provo: other side then

[12:54] Provo: a cultural continent

[12:55] Provo: riversight grocer done ?

[12:55] Provo: I think we can use a couple of knights after next catapult

[12:55] Provo: since we lost 2 keshiks in 2 tcs

[12:56] Provo: that or elephants (which are cheaper)

[12:56] Methos: Where do you want the next cats to head?

[12:56] Provo: send them first to Cologne ? or how is Stuttgart defense culture?

[12:57] Methos: they won't make it to cologne before we take her. stuttgart has no culture

[12:57] Methos: theres two currently in Munich

[12:57] Provo: yes, but Cologne is a base for next phase

[12:58] Provo: Essen/Frankfurt

[12:58] Provo: maybe Tartar

[12:58] Provo: so send it there for garrison work

[12:58] Provo: hehe, "her" about a catapult

[12:59] Methos: oh yeah, riversight is also done. she's currently building wealth, but isn't needed. we're earning +12 gpt

[12:59] Provo: workers, I beg you

[13:00] Provo: we need to connect Cologne with roads and so on

[13:00] Methos: workers it is

[13:00] Provo: how many turns per worker ?

[13:01] Methos: three

[13:01] Provo: besides, it is ok with workers in coppertown too

[13:01] Provo: as I will ask for vassalage along with mercantilism

[13:01] Methos: good point, I'll switch her to them too

[13:01] DaveShack: vassalage doesn't affect non-military units, right?

[13:01] Provo: no

[13:01] Methos: two turn workers in coppertown

[13:02] Methos: interesting, taking riversight off wealth made us go from +12 to -3 gpt.

[13:02] Methos: ending turn

[13:02] Provo: but is great for a campaign army , upkeepwise, and I intend to produce only good troops for a while

[13:03] DaveShack: yes, wealth gives a lot of gold. As I've been saying, put a couple of cities which have all improvements on wealth and our economic troubles are gone

[13:03] Provo: I am amazed some players were happy with 11 workers on this massive continent

[13:03] Methos: gpt just dropped to -9. I'm getting ready to start on cologne, the assault is on!

[13:03] Provo: interesting

[13:03] DaveShack: I hate to build too many of them and then disband when there is no work left to do -- though agree 11 is too few

[13:04] Provo: we will see how the triple city raider fares

[13:04] Provo: I think 20 workers would be the optimal for this enormous territory

[13:05] Provo: they lost 2 cats, longbowman and spearman, and will soon lose longbowman and axeman

[13:06] Methos: odd. first four full health cats all die and don't scratch the LB. our severely wounded cat with 0.0 chance manages to survive and wound the LB

[13:07] Methos: we're keeping cologne, right?

[13:07] Provo: hmm, I sort of hoped you would open with the gatebreaker

[13:07] Provo: yes keep

[13:08] Methos: I used the cats to wound them. The gatebreaker went second as his odds weren't that good. I used a sacrifice to help him out

[13:08] Provo: there was broad consensus to keep it

[13:08] Provo: not a poster wrote raze

[13:08] Provo: how was the odds ?

[13:09] Provo: good to sacrifice cats :)

[13:09] Provo: I am ok with that

[13:09] Methos: kept the city, earned 113 gold

[13:09] Provo: next generation cats should start out with more XP

[13:09] Methos: 84% for the gatebreaker. after sacrifice was 100

[13:09] Provo: those 113 gold were nice

[13:09] Provo: any promotions so far =

[13:10] Provo: ?

[13:10] Provo: and how are the odds on Stuttgart ?

[13:10] Methos: This will be my last turn, as Banking is due when I "end turn".

[13:10] Methos: Let me check

[13:10] Provo: with the best unit ?

[13:10] Provo: also check peace with Germany for Compass (and other goods)

[13:10] Methos: one of the axes won't reach stuttgart until next turn.

[13:11] Provo: ok

[13:11] Provo: what are the present odds?

[13:13] fed1943: I must leave. Bye,gents

[13:13] Provo: bye fed

[13:14] Methos: bye fed

[13:14] * fed1943 has left #turnchat

[13:14] Methos: need to mm real quick

[13:14] Provo: I had hoped we could poll Compass for German Peace, so that we can get our economy uo

[13:14] Provo: up

[13:14] Provo: ok

[13:18] Methos: he is willing to give compass

[13:18] Provo: that is to be polled

[13:19] Provo: and a good deal it is too

[13:19] Provo: fits perfectly in with optics

[13:19] Provo: I still need literature, but with HE we do not need engineering

[13:19] Provo: more than compass ?

[13:20] Methos: he also has philo

[13:20] * Joe32320 has joined #turnchat

[13:20] Provo: willing to give us that?

[13:21] Provo: and Rome tech trades?

[13:21] Joe32320: you still doing it!

[13:21] Provo: closing down

[13:21] Provo: he MMed very well

[13:21] Joe32320: very throughly

[13:22] Joe32320: whats happen?

[13:22] Provo: we won most battles

[13:22] Methos: I'm not sure if he'll give philo. I'd have to do would you accept, which goes against the rules

[13:22] Provo: managed to get Cologne and Banking 1 turn quicker

[13:22] Methos: We lost four cats and a keshik and have cologne

[13:23] Joe32320: any other cities?

[13:23] Provo: we polled only one

[13:23] Provo: but we can do with Compass

[13:23] Provo: and religion change?

[13:23] Joe32320: we had plenty of units to take two cities

[13:23] Provo: that would save a couple of missionaries for later

[13:24] Provo: well, I voted 2 cities

[13:24] Provo: but this is what could be done in 10 turns

[13:24] Methos: I still have to do my writeup and such, but heres the save if you want to give her a look

[13:24] Methos: http://www.civfanatics.net/methos/games/dg2/saves/C4DG2%20AD-1470.Civ4SavedGame

[13:24] Methos: only 3.5 hour long turnset!

[13:25] Methos: I've shut the game down btw.

[13:25] Methos: I'll stay here for a little while longer in case anyone has questions.

[13:28] Provo: I am here

[13:28] Provo: I got the game up

[13:29] Methos: most of the army is in cologne.

[13:29] Methos: there are units on "Go-To"

[13:29] Provo: I think we need to take one more city to get a good peace deal, so if we are not getting Compass, maybe we should take one more city

[13:30] Methos: if we do, it'll have to be quick. ww is starting to kick in

[13:30] Joe32320: I think the entire south of Germany should be conquer first, before peace

[13:31] Methos: notice near dortmouth the unit who came out to investigate our keshik? what that one

[13:32] Provo: I think we can handle Dortmund and Frankfurt

[13:33] Provo: I mean Stuttgart and Frankfurt

[13:33] Joe32320: And Essen

[13:33] Provo: please post the screenies of city intel

[13:33] Provo: and Essen

[13:33] Methos: for you warmongers, how long does it take for ww to really kick in?

[13:33] Provo: we need to attack in less than 6-8 turns

[13:34] Methos: Feel free to use the intel links in your own [img][/img] tags. I will post them though.

[13:34] Joe32320: Yes agreed we need to be quick

[13:34] Provo: war weariness is already 2 in NOTA

[13:35] Methos: I'm expecting legal action from this TC as I began ignoring instructions due to economy issues. I guess we'll see.

[13:35] Provo: you should not expect much

[13:35] Provo: the lawyers like to take it easy now

[13:35] Methos: berlin has two unhappy, but thats probably due to it being german and we're fighting them

[13:35] Provo: they can only quarrel so far

[13:35] Joe32320: Well you got my support

[13:35] Provo: they are already making a mess as it is

[13:36] Provo: so they should look to their own before they comment this

[13:36] Provo: I also endorsed cutting down on military spending

[13:37] Provo: Yet, if these catapults had 2 more xp, they made have killed more in Cologne and so on

[13:37] Methos: I found it odd that they didn't do much collateral damage

[13:37] Provo: I am willing to extend the war for up to 7-8 turns, then end it

[13:37] Methos: Typically collateral does it versus everyone, but the LB didn't get scratched from the first four cats

[13:37] Provo: we will make only collaterals from now

[13:38] Methos: The promoted LB was what I was worried about, hence my continued cat toss. Originally I wasn't expecting to use so many

[13:38] Provo: well Methos, I will argue Vassalage with Mercantilism, and build a more tuned force for the next war

[13:39] Provo: I think we only can carry two cities more this time

[13:39] Provo: on a closer look

[13:39] Methos: I need to crunch the numbers on Vassalage, but in all honesty, as governor of the aimag containing NOTA it's tough to argue against Bureacracy

[13:39] Provo: for the aimag yes

[13:39] Provo: but for a short period of time, I think it makes sense

[13:40] Provo: I intend to have forces up to 16 free units more

[13:40] Provo: and we calculate that based on our population points divided by 4

[13:40] Methos: Well, I need to do my writeup and get some lunch. So I'm going to sign off.

[13:40] Provo: all rite :) see you

[13:40] Methos: Later Session Close: Sat Jul 14 13:40:59 2007